Best MMORPG ever.

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Cleon
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Best MMORPG ever.

Post by Cleon »

Many would argue on the worlds greatest MMORPG, but after giving it some thought, here is what I decided would make one the best of all.

Perhaps, one day we will make our own MMORPG, and call it Dark Kindred.

First, daily limits on skills, trade and leveling.
The cure to elitism. This means that no one can exceed a certain level in a day's time--forcing them to immerse into other avenues of the game and environment: crafting, business, economy, exploration, etc. This would keep everyone on an equal playing field--including the casual gamer--and force a teamwork involvement unheard of in other MMORPGs. There should be a daily limit on many other things as well--for example, the amount of profit you're allowed to make on traded or sold goods to other players.

Next, adding a touch of realism on death.
People like to feel their character is the "main" character of their gaming world. I think it is OK to use a release feature once you're fallen, but don't call it death yet. If you've fallen in battle, you should become either deeply wounded, or unconscious--with a chance to come back to your senses or have a little movement until you officially perish--unless of course your opponents take the time to truly finish you off.

Not all HP lessening wounds should be fatal when you reach 0 HP. This accomplishes two things: one--if you are in a large battle and your opponents don't take the time to finish you off, about a minute later you muster enough strength to rise back up with a choice--either 20 seconds of berserker mode fighting to the death with your final breathes--then you die, or taking a moment to mend some of your wounds and go back into the battle injured or fleeing altogether. Imagine that moment when before you die, you save your friend from his enemy before you perish! Two; if you do release, you should wake up in a bed somewhere being doctored by someone--while your doctor says someone found you just in the nick of time and brought you in--just like in a TV setting. Alternately, if someone slaughters you, we are in a world full of magic--so you should awake with a penalty in some mage quarters rather than in a medical bed. With perhaps a 5% temporary reduction to stats while you take time to mend. The magicians found the mending antidote just in time to bring you back to life--or perhaps if you're a clerical or heroic class--the church prayed and a miracle took place. There should be a variety of methods that brings your gaming hero back from the nether.


Next, remove stealth and add forms of camoflauge.
Invisibility should be earned. Perhaps finding reflective armor, or wearing green armor while in grass would make stealthing more realistic. I'd rather stand by a tree wearing brown and not be seen, pouncing upon my target unawares; than walking around in the open brick patio completely invisible. Yeah, buddy, I never heard, saw or smelled that great orc coming my way right in front of me---um, riiight? Camoflauge makes more sense.

Add responsibility.
There should be an urgency to take care of things that belong to you. Do you have a farm, or livestock, or children at the home you crafted for your family? Well, for every 12 hours of game time you're logged in with your character, you need to spend at least 30 minutes taking care of and maintaining your creations and responsibilities--or else your crops might die, your children might be abducted, your wife might leave, and your livestock starves to death. Of course, if you don't build anything, then you have no responsibilities other than perhaps some devotion at the nearest church, having a bite to eat at the nearest restaurant, or perhaps tinkering on your equipment and sharpening your weapons. Don't forget to check on and supervise those employees you left running and operating your business. They might be getting lazy, or not managing your goods and money correctly. It would be a shame to be forced to slaughter your employee in order to find that missing piece of inventory...just because of your lack of supervision as the owner manager. Of course, had you paid them a higher wage to start with, they might not have rebelled against or betrayed you, and been willing to work just fine without supervision. You are the boss, though, so whatever you do to run your business, is well, your business!

Finally, add loyalty.
Asheron's Call tried to implement this system. They only made the mistake of basing it off of experience for reward rather than other things. Rather than experience, there should be alternative rewards for keeping a patron, guild or allegiance for a long period of time--and severe consequences for breaking fellowship with them. This will cause players to take more time in choosing their friends, and making them reevaluate jumping ship.

There are subtle ways of doing this: Devoted and loyal people gain influence with society, and begin receiving discounts from vendors, experience bonuses, attribute bonuses, and find themselves becoming friendlier quicker with certain factions, etc. The same goes for guilds and alliances that randomly boot players from their guild or allegiance, rather than keeping the peace. The unloyal people find themselves in a fix. They notice vendors start dealing shady business with them, their influence rating becomes too low for better guilds to consider as a member, they notice that they are not capable of obtaining certain bonuses until they rebuild their influence, etc. A true penalty to a guild hopper is one that penalizes them on a realistic economy level. This system would alleviate anyone's desires to guild hop, and prevent guild leaders from being jerks to their members--since guild's known for booting a lot of members will have a low an unattractive influence score as well.



There are tons of other methods than could be implemented to make a game into the best of its time, but these focal points are the main backbones of today's market, and if addressed correctly--we could see the emerging of the best MMORPG of all time.

My 2cent--feel free to add yours to the bowl.
We are Kindred of Valiance

World of Warcraft

[ Old Blanchy Server WOTLK - CLASSIC]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Horde Realm ]
(Raamiah - Shaman) (Mørck - Warrior) (Arowana - Hunter) (Karîna - Rogue) (Ådam - Priest) (Krìsti - Warlock) (Lèo - Druid) (Valsu - Paladin) (Stibnites - Mage) (Festae - Death Knight)

[ Grobbulus Server WOTLK - CLASSIC]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Alliance Realm ]
(Valsu - Shaman) (Uaru - Warrior) (Trapiche - Hunter) (Lejes - Rogue) (Cleon - Priest) (Ealdor - Warlock) (Pacu - Druid) (Salvini - Paladin) (Jardini - Mage) (Jurupari - Death Knight)

[ Illidan Server BFA]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Horde Realm ]
(Stibnite - Mage) (Valsu - Shaman) (Lèjés - Demon Hunter) (Cleonae - Hunter) (Cleon - Priest) (Machairo - Warrior)
(Festae - Death Knight) (Sapote - Druid) (Castle - Paladin) (Erìk - Monk) (Progressive - Rogue) (Ealdor - Warlock)
Leonthor
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Re: Best MMORPG ever.

Post by Leonthor »

Nice posting Adam, I agree completely on many of the points you suggested. However there is a game out there right now that has most of those exact qualities already incorporated. Its the woefully unpopular, but I find quite enjoyable, Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach.

I got fed up with the daily rhetoric of WoW a couple weeks back and decided to activate the access code I had purchased in March for DDO. The control scheme is a bit more complex but quickly becomes workable when you take the time to configure it to your liking. When soloing if you die you only can only release to whatever Inn you are bound at, but in a group you will be rendered incapacitated til you bleed out to -10 hp. A group member can bandage you using the "Heal" skill, all classes have access to this, you will be stabilized and restored to 1 hp, then a healing potion or spell can restore you further. You have a small chance to self stabilize every few seconds, which stops the bleeding & holds you at 0 hp, incapacitated but not dying. Should you die fully, a surviving group member can grab your soul stone & run it to a shrine, which will restore you to 1 hp, or you can release to the Inn. You can "Rest" at any shrine to restore HP & Magic Energy, but you can only rest at each shrine 1 time every 30 mins. or so. To prevent cheating when dead and a ghost, you can't be more than 5 yards from your stone for more than 10 seconds before being yanked back to the stone. I am not sure about the guild setup cause I haven't joined one yet. But the game has a decent & workable voice chat integrated into the grouping system.

I don't think they have a limit on leveling per day but the game currently has a level limit of 16 I believe, with the upgrade to 20 coming in an update scheduled for late summer. Each level has 4 ranks that yield an "Action Point", these can be used at a trainer to purchase a slight skill or ability boost. The skills "Hide" & "Move Silently" combine into a "Sneak" ability which is also available to all classes and more emulates a move in shadows, as you are never fully invisible, just shaded out. The ability to detect a "sneaking" enemy is affected by their surroundings (ie. lighting, water on the floor, line of sight, etc...) as well as your skills in "Spot" & "Listen". (Of course the reverse is also true of the enemy seeing you or hiding from you.) Only the Rogue & Ranger classes can recieve maximum results for training those skills, other classes have to spend 2 pts. per skill level and are more tightly limited on maximum points spent. There is magical invisiblity available, but unless you have decent move silently its benefits are very limited.

If you want you can repeat a quest instance but you gain less xp after the first run unless you are doing it at a tougher difficulty setting. Most of the quests I have seen so far offer the difficulty options of <Solo> <Normal> <Hard> and <Elite>. The Hard setting requires you to complete the quest on solo or normal first, completing it on Hard will unlock Elite and you can't be more than 2 levels above the quest level to enter that instance. Hard & Elite also offer better rewards including Favor with some factions and rare items. However they don't just make the mobs tougher, there can be new areas added, more and different monsters, nastier traps and so on. You can do the higher difficulties while solo, but the gold you will burn through on healing potions for most classes would not make it worthwhile to do so.

Did you notice I mentioned traps in that last segment? Most dungeons have traps, hidden doors and such that have to be deactivated or bypassed in some way. These can be the obvious work for the rogue type to find & disable or magical ones that require a player with high intelligence to decode a rune or as simple as a switch or valve somewhere nearby that anyone can throw. Anyone can train "Disable Device", but only certain classes can train it fully.

One of my favorite things about this game setup is the flexibility and accuracy of the play design. If you come to a crate or ledge too high to jump straight up onto, you can grab the edge with your hands and pull yourself up. When fighting enemies there is collision detection, you cant just run through the tanks to hit the casters behind them, you have to maneuver around them or let your ranged classes deal with them. An archer or thrower can also hit a mob in front of their intended target if they are "in harms way" and a miss can actually hit another mob behind or next to your target. Your ability to negotiate prices with merchants is affected by your favor with certain factions, but also can be influenced by certain character trained skills and your Charisma ability score. You can get a friend with a high persuade/diplomacy skill to sell your merchant trash and get more money for it.

Biggest down sides are, they have NO PvP other than some arena type thing that I haven't tried yet. The crafting system is not fully implemented yet. The Monk class is not available til the next expansion. I dont think there are mounts in the game, but the arcane classes get haste which gives a 2 min AOE movement & melee attack boost and there are many items available past level 3 or 4 with haste on them.

Well all that said I will be playing my usual Characters, in DDO for the next few weeks on the Ghallanda server. If anyone cares to give it a try you can get a 10 day free trial at http://trial.ddo.com/
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE™: Stormreach™ Trial Program . Don't activate your trial code on the Turbine account site til after the download is complete or you can buy the full version online for the same price as a month of WoW or DAoC which of course includes the first month of playtime. Look for me primarily on Neighlon my wizard, Xeryon my rogue or Gilrenda my ranger.


OMG that sounds like a long winded sales pitch, but I do like the game. And lets be honest, pretty much all RPGs have ties that link back to D&D in some way. Even WoW had some characters & quests that were a nod to some of the older modules & books written for or based on D&D campaign settings like Forgotten Realms. :)
Leonthor, Tamaromni, Neighlon and others in DAoC.
WoW (retired):Wambuku Pa-Monk, Phoebria NE-Priest, Leonthor Wo-Druid, Xarlyndra Hu-Mage, Tinaldyr Hu-Paladin, Yzcirin Dr-Shaman

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy & taste good with ketchup!!!
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Lynnx Holyfield
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Re: Best MMORPG ever.

Post by Lynnx Holyfield »

I love the sound of it, save for it was a wall of text and I did die mid-way through.. But I self-resurrected and finished!
DAoC: Former Member of Kindred of Valiance: Lady Lynnx Holyfield.
WoW: Druanthia - Phoenix Knights, 70 Restoration Healer.
WAR: Ravenia - Chaos, Zealot / Lyrielle - Dark Elf, Witch Elf.
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Cleon
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Re: Best MMORPG ever.

Post by Cleon »

Sorry, L. I'll edit the post later and make it easier to read, so that it's not too elite for some individuals. Don't want everyone burning their ankhs.

Nice post J. Even though I played D&D with my friends and cousins growing up irl in my early teens, I've to this day never played it online with the exception of an original single-player computer version that appeared similar to Dungeon Siege.

I've heard numerous people talk about DDO, but I just haven't taken any time to research it.

I might take a look at that one when I get home from work today.
We are Kindred of Valiance

World of Warcraft

[ Old Blanchy Server WOTLK - CLASSIC]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Horde Realm ]
(Raamiah - Shaman) (Mørck - Warrior) (Arowana - Hunter) (Karîna - Rogue) (Ådam - Priest) (Krìsti - Warlock) (Lèo - Druid) (Valsu - Paladin) (Stibnites - Mage) (Festae - Death Knight)

[ Grobbulus Server WOTLK - CLASSIC]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Alliance Realm ]
(Valsu - Shaman) (Uaru - Warrior) (Trapiche - Hunter) (Lejes - Rogue) (Cleon - Priest) (Ealdor - Warlock) (Pacu - Druid) (Salvini - Paladin) (Jardini - Mage) (Jurupari - Death Knight)

[ Illidan Server BFA]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Horde Realm ]
(Stibnite - Mage) (Valsu - Shaman) (Lèjés - Demon Hunter) (Cleonae - Hunter) (Cleon - Priest) (Machairo - Warrior)
(Festae - Death Knight) (Sapote - Druid) (Castle - Paladin) (Erìk - Monk) (Progressive - Rogue) (Ealdor - Warlock)
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Cleon
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Re: Best MMORPG ever.

Post by Cleon »

I got my free trial of DDO.

I'll see you on the server tonight.
We are Kindred of Valiance

World of Warcraft

[ Old Blanchy Server WOTLK - CLASSIC]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Horde Realm ]
(Raamiah - Shaman) (Mørck - Warrior) (Arowana - Hunter) (Karîna - Rogue) (Ådam - Priest) (Krìsti - Warlock) (Lèo - Druid) (Valsu - Paladin) (Stibnites - Mage) (Festae - Death Knight)

[ Grobbulus Server WOTLK - CLASSIC]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Alliance Realm ]
(Valsu - Shaman) (Uaru - Warrior) (Trapiche - Hunter) (Lejes - Rogue) (Cleon - Priest) (Ealdor - Warlock) (Pacu - Druid) (Salvini - Paladin) (Jardini - Mage) (Jurupari - Death Knight)

[ Illidan Server BFA]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Horde Realm ]
(Stibnite - Mage) (Valsu - Shaman) (Lèjés - Demon Hunter) (Cleonae - Hunter) (Cleon - Priest) (Machairo - Warrior)
(Festae - Death Knight) (Sapote - Druid) (Castle - Paladin) (Erìk - Monk) (Progressive - Rogue) (Ealdor - Warlock)
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Cleon
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Re: Best MMORPG ever.

Post by Cleon »

I have two character names.

Stibnite

and

Scofield

Unfortunately, Cleon was taken and Ealdor is always used as a title in Turbine games--which means I cannot name a character that.

I might be forced into another female character and name her Cleonae again.

Anyways, Scofield might be my main and is a cleric.
We are Kindred of Valiance

World of Warcraft

[ Old Blanchy Server WOTLK - CLASSIC]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Horde Realm ]
(Raamiah - Shaman) (Mørck - Warrior) (Arowana - Hunter) (Karîna - Rogue) (Ådam - Priest) (Krìsti - Warlock) (Lèo - Druid) (Valsu - Paladin) (Stibnites - Mage) (Festae - Death Knight)

[ Grobbulus Server WOTLK - CLASSIC]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Alliance Realm ]
(Valsu - Shaman) (Uaru - Warrior) (Trapiche - Hunter) (Lejes - Rogue) (Cleon - Priest) (Ealdor - Warlock) (Pacu - Druid) (Salvini - Paladin) (Jardini - Mage) (Jurupari - Death Knight)

[ Illidan Server BFA]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Horde Realm ]
(Stibnite - Mage) (Valsu - Shaman) (Lèjés - Demon Hunter) (Cleonae - Hunter) (Cleon - Priest) (Machairo - Warrior)
(Festae - Death Knight) (Sapote - Druid) (Castle - Paladin) (Erìk - Monk) (Progressive - Rogue) (Ealdor - Warlock)
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Lynnx Holyfield
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Re: Best MMORPG ever.

Post by Lynnx Holyfield »

Cleon wrote:Sorry, L. I'll edit the post later and make it easier to read, so that it's not too elite for some individuals. Don't want everyone burning their ankhs.

Are you saying.. that I am not elite enough to read walls of text?! *Blink*
DAoC: Former Member of Kindred of Valiance: Lady Lynnx Holyfield.
WoW: Druanthia - Phoenix Knights, 70 Restoration Healer.
WAR: Ravenia - Chaos, Zealot / Lyrielle - Dark Elf, Witch Elf.
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Cleon
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Re: Best MMORPG ever.

Post by Cleon »

I'm saying that you just haven't obtained enough experience yet to fight an elite wall of text of that capacity. Surely after you skill up a little further and receive a few buffs, you'll be on an equal playing field.
We are Kindred of Valiance

World of Warcraft

[ Old Blanchy Server WOTLK - CLASSIC]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Horde Realm ]
(Raamiah - Shaman) (Mørck - Warrior) (Arowana - Hunter) (Karîna - Rogue) (Ådam - Priest) (Krìsti - Warlock) (Lèo - Druid) (Valsu - Paladin) (Stibnites - Mage) (Festae - Death Knight)

[ Grobbulus Server WOTLK - CLASSIC]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Alliance Realm ]
(Valsu - Shaman) (Uaru - Warrior) (Trapiche - Hunter) (Lejes - Rogue) (Cleon - Priest) (Ealdor - Warlock) (Pacu - Druid) (Salvini - Paladin) (Jardini - Mage) (Jurupari - Death Knight)

[ Illidan Server BFA]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Horde Realm ]
(Stibnite - Mage) (Valsu - Shaman) (Lèjés - Demon Hunter) (Cleonae - Hunter) (Cleon - Priest) (Machairo - Warrior)
(Festae - Death Knight) (Sapote - Druid) (Castle - Paladin) (Erìk - Monk) (Progressive - Rogue) (Ealdor - Warlock)
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Ach
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Re: Best MMORPG ever.

Post by Ach »

Daily limits won't work. It will be highly unpopular and any popular game that institutes it will nerf it within a couple of months when subscribers start leaving. One aspect of the MMO is to play your style. If I want to spend this week leveling I can do so. If I want to take off the next week, I can do that.

If only one aspect of the game that appeals to a player is leveling, then daily limits institute a constricted routine based system. Log on for x amount of time until you hit your cap and you're done. Now what? I have four more hours to kill and I've got nothing to do in this game that I want to do.

I agree with all other points especially stealth. This is the biggest crutch in all MMO's right now. First of all it can't be balanced. Second of all it's too huge of an advantage. Third of all it's not stealth. It's invisibility. Age of Conan is very close to actually keeping stealth in game and balancing it. You can actually hear footsteps and the perception skill allows you to uncover stealthed players. Everyone gets stealth, and everyone gets perception. We'll see how that plays out.

One minor note regarding realism on death. If you're talking RP then you've got something. If you're talking general gaming you need to lose your stuff. Period. UO had it, and AC was close but had a copout. That's the only way. If you ran around on DarkTide without any expensive items in your inventory to lose (hence, the copout), you were scared ****less. You need fear. Without it you can't have realism. This will never again work in an MMO except for small niche markets.

/discuss
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Cleon
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Re: Best MMORPG ever.

Post by Cleon »

Ach wrote:Daily limits won't work. It will be highly unpopular and any popular game that institutes it will nerf it within a couple of months when subscribers start leaving. One aspect of the MMO is to play your style. If I want to spend this week leveling I can do so. If I want to take off the next week, I can do that.

If only one aspect of the game that appeals to a player is leveling, then daily limits institute a constricted routine based system. Log on for x amount of time until you hit your cap and you're done. Now what? I have four more hours to kill and I've got nothing to do in this game that I want to do.
That's the idea. The game will force people into other avenues--at the same time there must be benefit and appeal to do so.

Even in Warcraft, the most elite of leveling gamers and quickest of levelers eventually reach the game's max level and are forced to PvP/Daily quest/Craft/use AH/raid/make friends/etc.

In a game that forced people into expansive habits throughout the gameplay, it would keep the gaming world more balanced.

At the same time, I would make the cap unreachable by a good 50% of the population so that it only affects that portion of gamers that are considered elite hardcore--who lose sleep for days just to be the best.

Games should take the focus off of leveling and give incentive for other areas of the gaming world.

For example, Warhammer added a nifty quest system where people who spend time exploring can be rewarded by stumbling across something out in the middle of the woods.

Perhaps something appealing could be added to crafting and marketing.

For example, if you make enough sales and reach a certain crafting skill that day, you unlock your leveling cap for 12-24 hours.

The elite gamers would still get their higher levels, but they'd be forced to venture into economical avenues in order to take advantage of an increased leveling bonus. So that even if those things don't interest them, they do them anyway because it's the only thing that allows them to advance further, and therefore the economy is benefitted no matter what they do.

Besides if the gameplay, PvP, and fundamental elements are there in the game, they won't lose suscribers by implementing a system such as that. If anything, they'll keep and add more--because it will be esteemed as one of the most balanced and rewarding games of its genre.

I don't like the idea of losing items on death unless playing a pure PvP server. What would be nice however is to give a greater incentive for killing someone--such as looting them and getting temporary access to a portion of their gear that drops. Perhaps, if you kill that guy who's using a weapon from a server-first boss, he might drop it on death (but not from his inventory) and give your character access to it for an hour or such.

OR, perhaps the corpse could contain a "piece" of some weapon or armor that he's wearing, and you can use that piece in rare crafting recipes--and perhaps the piece you looted from him, forces him to make a repair to his armor.

There's a number of ways of going about looting players.
We are Kindred of Valiance

World of Warcraft

[ Old Blanchy Server WOTLK - CLASSIC]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Horde Realm ]
(Raamiah - Shaman) (Mørck - Warrior) (Arowana - Hunter) (Karîna - Rogue) (Ådam - Priest) (Krìsti - Warlock) (Lèo - Druid) (Valsu - Paladin) (Stibnites - Mage) (Festae - Death Knight)

[ Grobbulus Server WOTLK - CLASSIC]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Alliance Realm ]
(Valsu - Shaman) (Uaru - Warrior) (Trapiche - Hunter) (Lejes - Rogue) (Cleon - Priest) (Ealdor - Warlock) (Pacu - Druid) (Salvini - Paladin) (Jardini - Mage) (Jurupari - Death Knight)

[ Illidan Server BFA]—[A
CTIVE]—[ Horde Realm ]
(Stibnite - Mage) (Valsu - Shaman) (Lèjés - Demon Hunter) (Cleonae - Hunter) (Cleon - Priest) (Machairo - Warrior)
(Festae - Death Knight) (Sapote - Druid) (Castle - Paladin) (Erìk - Monk) (Progressive - Rogue) (Ealdor - Warlock)
raggedyandy
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Re: Best MMORPG ever.

Post by raggedyandy »

hpmhf...

if you can't fish...and burn a 12 pack over the course of an evening...


it isn't much of an mmorpg.


my 2cents

Andy
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