Witch Elf brainstorm session

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Kelltick
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:51 MST

Witch Elf brainstorm session

Post by Kelltick »

1st thread - w00t! :D

I'd like to hear some thoughts from the other WE's in the guild as to the build you are looking at using, and the ins-and-outs of your reasoning.

Myself, I just hit 25 and have all my points in the Suffering line. I grabbed the amazing Kiss of Doom tactic, and the "thorns" ability, and soon will have Black Lotus Blade.

Some initial thoughts:
  • The "thorns" ability, with all points in Suffering, does a good deal of damage. Typically I use it in PvE, where I will pull a handful of mobs and pop it. By the time the effect wears off, mob #1 is dead, and the remaining mobs have a very noticable chunk of health missing. Last I looked I think it did 161 damage, which isn't too shabby! In PvP, I'm still up in the air over using the "thorns" vs. our detaunt. I tend to lean towards the "thorns", however, due to the fact that if I have a few Order pounding my face in, halving their damage will give me a second, maybe two, extra to live, whereas 161 damage per hit I take may make the difference between a kill for our team, or that last sliver of life being enough to keep them up for the heartbreaking last second big heal.
  • Kiss of Doom rocks! I can't stress it enough. If you don't have it - get it! 25% extra chance for your Kisses to proc is amazing! In PvE, Kiss of Agony procs all the time with this, and in PvP, when taking on my primary target of healers, Kiss of Death is almost guaranteed to be up 100% of the time - invaluable for neutering healers.
  • Generally, my targets are healers first, BW's second, SW/WH/Eng third. With Kiss of Death, the healers heals are 45% less effective, and with Black Lotus Blade, the heals they receive (either from themselves or another player) are 50% less effective. For heals the healer places on themself, these effects are multiplicative, not additive. 1*.45*.5=.225, or their self heals are operating at 77.5% lower efficiency. And with Kiss of Doom effectively ensuring Kiss of Death at full up-time, that efficiency level (inefficiency level?) is near permanent.
  • This tree is built on 3 key ideas: a) neuter and eliminate healers via KoD and BLB, b) DoT's, more DoT's, more DoT's - Envenomed Blade and Wracking Pains for that fire-and-forget effect (or my favorite, the kill from the grave :twisted: ), and c) front-line viability through AoE.
  • WitchBrew (top of the tree ability) is an AoE, we have our rank 3 Morale ability, which is AoE, and our DoT's, which can be applied, cycle target, lather, rinse, repeat equals alot of damage potential to multiple targets in a relatively short amount of time.
  • One thing I've learned, and quickly, is once we get our primary target down, we tend to become persona non grata with Order in a New York minute. Our survivability after our alpha-kill is near non-existant. Which is perfectly fine by me. What is more important for the team to have success - 1 healer, or 1 melee DPS? Exactly. It's a trade-off I will gladly take time and time again. If I can survive long enough to take out another healer or a BW, or at the very least put a nice scare into them and take them out of the battle for a few moments, that's icing on the cake. Healer>>>Witch Elf - in terms of battlefield importance. If I can sacrifice myself at the cost of one of their healers, mission accomplished.
That's about it for now - it's late and I'm pooped. I would love to hear some thoughts from my fellow Witch Elves - knowledge learned is best when it's shared! :mrgreen:
Makisupah - 40 Witch Elf (18/4/3)
Fhayd
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Re: Witch Elf brainstorm session

Post by Fhayd »

One strategy I have tried is to have a tank guard the dps (WE, or Mar) as they rush in to hit priority targets. With most healers spec'd team buffs, they sit in the back line, so they are usually out of the fray (hopefully!).

Do you WE's see this as being a good idea? It may help you take out 2-3 priorities instead of just 1 then sacrificing yourself.
Kelltick
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Joined: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:51 MST

Re: Witch Elf brainstorm session

Post by Kelltick »

Fhayd wrote:One strategy I have tried is to have a tank guard the dps (WE, or Mar) as they rush in to hit priority targets. With most healers spec'd team buffs, they sit in the back line, so they are usually out of the fray (hopefully!).

Do you WE's see this as being a good idea? It may help you take out 2-3 priorities instead of just 1 then sacrificing yourself.
That's actually a key to my idea working. Partner with a properly specced Black Orc, get "guarded", wait a few seconds for the Order casters to target anyone other than you, enter the fray and go to town! :twisted:

Between the guard and the awesome melee buffs a BO provide, coupled with the melee debuffs WE can do - KoA drops Initiative, raising our crit chance, Wracking Pains drops Toughness, upping our DPS, nasty healing debuff of Black Lotus Blade, or if specced Carnage, Pierce Armor - should be a nasty combination.

I'm finding it more and more difficult to go in and lay waste to a clothie in T3. Can only imagine how T4 will be. They (Order) are getting very itchy trigger fingers in their backlines when it comes to watching for WE's. I can usually still get my mark down before I die, sometimes not, and rarer still can I make it back to healing range and survive. Still having a blast trying, though! :mrgreen:

On those matches where my success rate is lackluster, or when I know there's 1 or 2 WH's, I find it best to sit in our backlines and play "Guard the squishies!" - so satisfying wasting a WH before the healer drops! :mrgreen: Once the WH's are snuffed, then I go to town on either the tanks that are breaking through, or try to take advantage of the now pitched battle to stealth in and pick off a stray healer or BW.
Makisupah - 40 Witch Elf (18/4/3)
Famine
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Re: Witch Elf brainstorm session

Post by Famine »

I'm finding it more and more difficult to go in and lay waste to a clothie in T3. Can only imagine how T4 will be. They (Order) are getting very itchy trigger fingers in their backlines when it comes to watching for WE's. I can usually still get my mark down before I die, sometimes not, and rarer still can I make it back to healing range and survive. Still having a blast trying, though! :mrgreen:
Let me tell you, it doesn't get much easier so far. As far as waiting and goin in thats the best idea you can have because if your not their target, then you live longer. I like to let my tank go in first and then my pbaoe friends
We are the 4 Horsemen of the apocalypse.
ίππος χλωρός, θάνατος- Death
ίππος λευκός -Pestilence
ίππος μέλας-Famine
ίππος πυρρός-War

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Kelltick
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Re: Witch Elf brainstorm session

Post by Kelltick »

Well, respecced to full Carnage/KoD to see what all the hubbub was about with that spec.....

ZOMG why didn't I try it out earlier?! Soooo much better than Suffering it's not even funny.
Makisupah - 40 Witch Elf (18/4/3)
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Kestrel_Trebor
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Re: Witch Elf brainstorm session

Post by Kestrel_Trebor »

Though with multiple level 40 WE's we should probably choose complementary specs - one suffering, one carnage, for the healing debuffs and to avoid duplicative knockdowns / immunity timers.
MMO's Played Include The Realm, Meridian 59, UO, AO, AC2, DAOC, WOW
DAOC 2001-2006, Toons Included:
Kestrel (sorceror, alb perc) --> Hasil (infiltrator, alb perc) --> Bardif (healer, mid guin) --> Chianan (bard, hib merlin)
Sacred Brotherhood, Ascendency, Solarius

WAR --> Hasil the Witch Elf
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Kelltick
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Joined: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:51 MST

Re: Witch Elf brainstorm session

Post by Kelltick »

With gold being a non-factor, and respecs cheap to boot, I'll gladly go deep Suffering for PvE runs. I've been deep Suffering from 1-38, so I have a bit of experience with it. :P

But yeah, it's worth it for Septic Blade alone. Maybe a 0/18/7 Suffering/Treachery spec. Max out Suffering, picking up the obligatory KoD, Septic Blade, and Witchbrew, and the rest in Treachery for added ranks on Agonizing Wound. Doubt there's any mob that heals, so no need for BLB.

Keep the DoT's rollin', Toughness debuff from Wracking Pains, -crit from Septic Blade w/ Envenomed Blade, coupled with your Pierce Armor and Initiative debuff from KoA - pretty nasty. Figure KoD, SB, Flanking, and either Brute Force, Increased Pain, or Frenzied Mayhem as tactics.

Although - do Heart Seeker and OYK share the same immunity timer? Are bosses susceptible to stuns? If the answers are no/yes, then I'd definitely pick up Heart Seeker from Treachery as well.

PvP, however - the sheer speed at which full Carnage kills is too much to stay Suffering. Battles don't shape out like I envisioned they might when I first started this thread, leaving the DoT-heavy/semi-AoE idea I had lagging behind the pure burst of Carnage.
Makisupah - 40 Witch Elf (18/4/3)
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